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box
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Mon 09 Dec, 2019 6:55 pm

Did you see my link a few posts back about the Garrett GT2860? (the ebay one).

Oil & water cooled, internal wastegate, $350 each delivered.  
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BATOOH
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Re: Garrett Turbo's

Mon 09 Dec, 2019 10:11 pm

Yeah I did thanks Box. At the time I was hoping to keep it Mitsi turbo'd as presumably theTD05 is Metric and you can also clock them easily. when I look at some of those GT turbo's they have those funny bolted on Compressor housings and I don't know what threads they would be.
 
magn1t
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Wed 11 Dec, 2019 1:18 pm

Not sure why you'd want to weld cast iron?
Had a discussion on the old NZMMC forum years ago........some muppet wanted to mount an external WG on the factory manifold on a wannabe evo. (Nothing wrong with internals if you know what you're doing but kids are easy to brainwash so they spend on crap they don't need and won't work)................so they welded it.........welding cast iron is easy really, the problem is that it doesn't expand and shrink as much as everything else does. ....so here's me....it'll fall off,(as usual I had the kiddies on there arguing), it can't do anything else other than fall off..........and it DID....on race day of course. It just takes time.
I recently welded the cast iron handwheel back onto my crank grinding machine. There's no strength in it and so long as I don't bump it, it will still work. But that's a different situation....Cast iron CAN be welded but either it won't last or it won't be strong or both.
Prior planning prevents piss poor performance.
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sat 14 Dec, 2019 4:47 am

To weld a TD05 flange to the 3 stud td04 connection. Apparently you need the right welding rods and you have to heat it to some ungodly temperature.I'm gonna go see Royce Clive engineering to see what they say. and at present I'm hoping the 4 stud TD05H connection is big enough to allow bolt holes on the flange to miss the cast iron work.
 
magn1t
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sat 14 Dec, 2019 12:15 pm

It'll only work if the flange and filler rod is the same cast iron as the manifold. 
Any other way it can't do anything other than fall off.
You might get away with cutting the flange off a 4G63 manifold, cutting the flange off the rear 6G manifold (no you'd have to leave it in place) and gluing them together with the welder but then you've still got to deal with the front manifold, you can't really fit a TDO5 between the flange and the engine mount. That's why on mine I used a pair of rear manifolds, it gives more wiggle room at the front.

edit, just been looking through TM, these seem to be about the best buy right now, might even get a pair for myself?
https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-pa ... 862716-005
Prior planning prevents piss poor performance.
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Thu 09 Jan, 2020 2:11 pm

No progress on Turbo's yet. Got a part time job now and that's keeping me busy. anyway end of this month I'm gonna get the IAT wired into the Link and retune/dyno given the IAT and the new turbo intakes and BOV that  I put in after realizing the OEM turbo intake pipes were restricted to 38mm (from memory). must be those bloody Mitsi engineers trying to keep the power levels down I guess!
 
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box
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sat 11 Jan, 2020 8:58 am

I think I asked you this before, but what does dyno time cost you down there? Every time mine goes to the dyno, my wallet ends up about a grand lighter. 
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magn1t
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sat 11 Jan, 2020 5:14 pm

Did you fit the link without an IAT sensor?
It defeats the purpose of having an aftermarket ECU
Prior planning prevents piss poor performance.
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sat 11 Jan, 2020 7:59 pm

box wrote:
I think I asked you this before, but what does dyno time cost you down there? Every time mine goes to the dyno, my wallet ends up about a grand lighter. 

I've forgotten what he said. If I had a guess I would say $120/hr? Anyway shouldn't take long just needs to tune the cold idle etc and what it does at the top end. I know this sounds blasé but I don't even want to know what it will cost as he's not ripping me off. I'm hoping It will make 420-430whp. That's what we were both thinking last time but those restrictions must have buggered it.
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sat 11 Jan, 2020 8:01 pm

magn1t wrote:
Did you fit the link without an IAT sensor?
It defeats the purpose of having an aftermarket ECU

Yeah he said the IAT was a nice to have. The LINK has an onboard MAP sensor. I think that is more important than IAT. I sort of think it will come one day where I have to replace the  onboard MAP sensor with an external (better) MAP sensor. I will ask him for a file copy of the tune for Box to use. 
 
magn1t
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 12 Jan, 2020 12:07 am

BATOOH wrote:
Yeah he said the IAT was a nice to have. 

Think about this very carefully.
SD means "speed density"
Speed density is named as it is because the tuning tables for AFR and timing have an X and a Y axis.
One of them is speed (RPM) the other is density, as in air density inside the intake manifold.

Density needs 2 sensors, one being temp, the other being pressure.
You can't determine density without the IAT sensor which should be mounted IN the manifold, not before it.

Now your wannabe tuner / parts fitter might tell you that you don't need it and you just lock in a fixed number.It's several steps backwards from having a factory ECU....The factory ECU measures flow, temp and pressure all in the same place and that gives the air mass. SD determines mass from density, RPM and VE, so when you're tuning SD you're putting in numbers that correspond to the engines VE at various RPM and manifold density points.
A turbo pumping out say 2 bar of boost will have a typical outlet temp of about 130 deg C, that goes through an intercooler of continuously varying efficiency.The 130 C at 2 bar might temporarily drop to 60 C through the intercooler but it'll creep up with time. What your manifold sees in terms of temp can be anywhere between maybe zero c on a cold morning all the way to 130 with 2 bar boost.
That means that at a constant boost level the actual density will vary a lot.....so your tune will change with the weather as does the efficiency of the intercoolers.
Not only that but most fitters fit the AIT before the throttle body, that's wrong too because a partially closed throttle drops the pressure but it drops the temp too, That's why the throttle is heated, to stop it from freezing with ice on a cold morning.It might be OK for a drag car that only sees full throttle, useless for anything else.
All factory SD installs have both sensors in the manifold and in fact a lot of modern cars have both sensors built into the same package for ease.
Prior planning prevents piss poor performance.
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 12 Jan, 2020 9:14 pm

magn1t wrote:
BATOOH wrote:
Yeah he said the IAT was a nice to have. 

Think about this very carefully.
SD means "speed density"
Speed density is named as it is because the tuning tables for AFR and timing have an X and a Y axis.
One of them is speed (RPM) the other is density, as in air density inside the intake manifold.

Density needs 2 sensors, one being temp, the other being pressure.
You can't determine density without the IAT sensor which should be mounted IN the manifold, not before it.
I,m learning!

Now your wannabe tuner / parts fitter might tell you that you don't need it and you just lock in a fixed number.It's several steps backwards from having a factory ECU....The factory ECU measures flow, temp and pressure all in the same place and that gives the air mass. SD determines mass from density, RPM and VE, so when you're tuning SD you're putting in numbers that correspond to the engines VE at various RPM and manifold density points.
Probably added to the power decrease I experienced last year … went from 2 min 32 to 2 min 36....???

A turbo pumping out say 2 bar of boost will have a typical outlet temp of about 130 deg C, that goes through an intercooler of continuously varying efficiency.The 130 C at 2 bar might temporarily drop to 60 C through the intercooler but it'll creep up with time. What your manifold sees in terms of temp can be anywhere between maybe zero c on a cold morning all the way to 130 with 2 bar boost.
Probably does.
That means that at a constant boost level the actual density will vary a lot.....so your tune will change with the weather as does the efficiency of the intercoolers. 
Yes hopefully the IAT will cover this.

Not only that but most fitters fit the AIT before the throttle body, that's wrong too because a partially closed throttle drops the pressure but it drops the temp too, That's why the throttle is heated, to stop it from freezing with ice on a cold morning.It might be OK for a drag car that only sees full throttle, useless for anything else.
All factory SD installs have both sensors in the manifold and in fact a lot of modern cars have both sensors built into the same package for ease.

Throttle got disemboweled from heating many years ago. Worked fine even on a cold morning,  and It always got heated up before the runs which everybody racing a car does anyway. Installing the Link changed that however. That's why I'm putting in the IAT. personally I don't think it will matter much if it's pre TB or Post. I'm going to go with the advice of the race seasoned Pro's!.
 
BATOOH
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Re: Modern Brake Master Cylinders.

Thu 16 Jan, 2020 6:20 pm

Seeking braking performance continues and dropped a 15/16 inch Galant M/C in b4 Xmas. Couldn't get a hard pedal as I had with the OEM GTO pedal, so Faffed around with it over Xmas NY  you know moving the fulcrum point etc etc . So today took the galant one out dropped the GTO one back in and bled it (F I'm sick of bleeding brakes!!!) and hey presto hard pedal.

The Q is why does a 2002 Galant M/C have a funny looking baffle plate at the back end of the cylinder? Are modern M/c's... vented/baffled/whatever these days. I'm a little bemused. maybe the Galant item I got from Pick Part was fooked.

I just so want to race this thing, every event I line up on the calendar gets weather bombed though. hAS ANYBODY HAD ANY xPERIENCE ON THIS?
 
BATOOH
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Re: Brakes and Dyno works.

Mon 24 Feb, 2020 9:10 pm

Got some brakes and have changed over to 10mm alloy plate carrying the M/C off the firewall. The Flex in the plate when a big guy was in the seat pushing the brakes hard was just ridiculous. I thought I might have to get some tig welding done for a while there, until I figured out where the strength points were in the firewall. A couple of well placed 10mm bolts and she's heaps better. now running about 8.5 to 1 ratio on the stock pedal and using the stock 1&1/16" M/C. Have  A 15/16" M/C in reserve. will see how it goes at next event. Bear in mind I did a Hillclimb with about 6:1 ratio (hard pedal) and development setup (5mm alloy plate). Basically no brakes and had a couple of hairy moments but improved PB by 6 seconds!

Taking car down tomorrow, for IAT fitment and redyno sometime over the next 10 days. After the last Dyno session - when the Link was installed, I found that the old HKS BOV was stuck partially open. Replaced that with new one and opened the pre turbo pipes to 75mm. I'm hoping for a bigger number, as I'm hoping for some better idle characteristics too! Don't worry Box I'm asking for the base tune or whatever you call it. See if he will give me something.
 
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box
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Tue 25 Feb, 2020 10:11 am

No biggie if you don't get a chance, I'm just being a nosey prick (I always like seeing other GTO tune files).
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Blitz92
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 01 Mar, 2020 12:47 pm

Out of curiosity did you end up making some kind of Plug in set up for the GTO or did you get someone to wire the link in for you?
I've owned GTO's since before I had a licence.
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Mon 02 Mar, 2020 11:52 am

Got Neville Stowell to wire the EVO 1-3 Plug in Link, for me. 
 
BATOOH
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Re: Latest DYNO results

Sat 14 Mar, 2020 4:22 pm

It's done and I pick it up Monday or Tuesday. Got bumped by a Suzuki for a coupley weeks. Apparently its 421awhp and about the same torque figure. a little more timing was added and boost has gone to 19psi. he said it should go alright if it holds together!. 6500rpm was max tuning RPM as the Power/Tq lines rolled off.   Mmmm. I get the feeling knock was hard to pickup in the phones so hoping Nev hasn't got a hearing problem like me! so maybe it's a conservative tune. maybe not. chart up Tuesday at latest.
 
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box
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 15 Mar, 2020 2:37 pm

Solid numbers, well done. Are you running a knock sensor with the Link?
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BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 15 Mar, 2020 6:06 pm

No Knock sensor.
 
BATOOH
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Re: Dyno results

Mon 16 Mar, 2020 7:39 pm

Can't post chart up yet as scanner not working into new Desktop as resulted from Lightning strike. Ok its 421 hp at the flywheel at 5563 rpm and 427 lb-ft Tq at 4433 rpm. The graph is a little cleaner this time with oscillations on the lines only occurring after 5250 rpm and he said that was because his dyno is a 2004 model and it's not as good as it could be. the power line is pretty much straight from 2200-5200rpm. The Torque line is pretty much straight from 3500-5200rpm. The dyno automatically picks up drivetrain losses when he sets it up and does a couple of power off runs. so it is awhp as I thought. got some tips that was happy to received like the vac/boost line set ups and the rear turbo intake hose being too long. I've been battling this new PC setup now for a few weeks mainly because the ISP is crap and doesn't look after me. can't even take a pic of the cart and load it cause the bloody card on the camera doesn't go into the new PC. Box I got a usb stcik with my link sh** on it.
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-2020 DYNO CHart

Sat 21 Mar, 2020 8:16 am

2020 GTO Dyno.jpg
wHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS DAMN THING
 
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Chronos_c4
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sat 21 Mar, 2020 7:04 pm

.BATOOH:wHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS DAMN THING

Nothing

User error, as usual. Maybe get your son to show you how to do it
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Chronos_c4
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sat 21 Mar, 2020 7:12 pm

1. Post reply
2. Attachments tab (next to "options") under the typing box.
3. Add files
4. Select file
5. Finish writing message then hit "Submit"

image appears separately under the text.
if you want it in a specific part of the post, then you need learn how to do embedding but lets just get this sorted first, so you dont blow a vessel everytime you want to share a photo
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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BATOOH
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Re: Loading files.

Sun 22 Mar, 2020 4:41 am

Ok so when I load things and it doesn't work I have the habit of adding a small amount of text that typically reflects my thinking at the time rather than adding text pertinent to the post I'm trying to create. Knowing that I can go back in and edit, when it works. So yeah sorry about my frustrations boiling over onto the post. anyway what you have described as the correct process for adding files, is exactly what I have been doing.

Also, in relation to your two posts above, I can not open the attachment in them. Can anybody else open them?

I think from experience on this forum, that it's the "User" "Settings" that you and the other Administrators set that are the problem here. The settings seem to lapse /change at times.

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