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magn1t
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Re: Facebook

Sat 27 Apr, 2019 1:01 pm

The really simple answer is RTFM.
There's several versions, all on line, all able to be downloaded to the computer.
If you can't be bothered reading the manual, you shouldn't be working on the car and shouldn't be asking on FB. 

If the tensioner is fitted correctly you can pull the pin, turn the crank several times, put the pin back in again.
If the pin won't go back in, you've done it wrong.


Now WHEN not IF the pin doesn't go back in...you've got to pull it all apart, put the tensioner in the vice to compress it all over again, put the pin back in..........that contradicts what some of the kiddies on here say about reusing them?


If it's fitted correctly then even if the spring inside snaps, the belt can't jump.If it's fitted correctly the belt can't jump even if it loses it's internal damping fluid.....so all of this talk of failed parts, It's bad installation or wrong diagnosis....In my own case a snapped bolt does cause the valves to bend.
Both my cars, I've done a little mod with a washer over the pin, that just limits the total adjustment to hopefully give a better safety margin.


https://www.3si.org/forum/f36/new-hydra ... re-370892/

If you don't have a vice....you can't do the job.
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
Purple GTO
Posts: 94
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Location: Auckland

Re: Facebook

Sun 28 Apr, 2019 11:08 am

Hmmm
 Brought my first car in '79 which I don't have any more. Brought my first GTO in '93, so if i'm a kid what does that make you? 

 I am also someone that tinkers in the workshops, can use a lathe and mill and has made some cool stuff.  My full time job is the director of a very, very successful company - designing, building and exporting high tech machinery around the world (there is only a couple of companies around the world that do what we do at the same high level that we do). They are my designs out of my head, I also hold world-wide patents for some of this gear.  
As far as cars go, I have done bare metal full restorations, built motors, done a heap of repowers - current one non auto to TT.  Most of my cars are modified well beyond stock by me including my late model supercharged Jags.  So, I am not a 'kid' that has no experience. I have a very good idea about how mechanical sh** should work and I'm not too bad with electronics/diagnostics on multiple platforms.
 I also own the full hard copy, telephone sized GTO service manual which I purchased in '93 in the USA . Your point about the tensioner failing not being the cause for timing to jump a couple of teeth is wrong in this case as I could put the release pin back in so the setup was correct.  I understand the logic of the gap between the tensioner body and tension bearing bracket not allowing enough travel to allow the belt to climb over the teeth, and adding the washer is a good idea in future, but in my case it did. Maybe something flexes to create a bit more belt length?  It was also cold when it jumped.
The tensioner had only done 5000km so I figured it should be good to reuse.  I compressed it in a vice over a few hours pushed the pin in and installed it. A week or so later it was idling like sh** and found it had jumped a couple of teeth.
 Any way chucked a new OEM one in and drove the thing for a few more years without a problem. From this and other peoples failed attempts to reuse (I used to do cap replacements for early ign modules in the 90's for Kempy so saw plenty) I conclude that its not worth pissing around with used ones if they weren't 100% anything else is gambling for the sake of saving $100-150 bucks.

I see some things the same way with some of the young 'know it all' people, However I  try to educate as car tinkering is a dying art. We are now becoming more and more a disposable society so passing knowledge along to the few that will listen is important.   When you get 'know it all fuckwits' on the way it makes you wonder if you are wasting your time - I get that and I have actually ditched the GTO FB group due to this antisocial behavior of some people. .
Anyway this is not a crack at anyone it's just trying to let some people know that there is a lot more to a book than it's cover and you shouldn't be so quick to make assumptions.
 
magn1t
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Re: Facebook

Sun 28 Apr, 2019 3:06 pm

There's one very simple test to do so you KNOW that it can't jump timing.
That's to turn the crank backwards.

I had an engine sitting for a while on the floor, was a used spare one, one I must have bought complete but broken? Anyway when I came to move it the crank turned backwards and the timing jumped, not that it mattered but if it's going to jump timing, it'll jump when the crank goes backwards.
Leave them sitting for a while, the valve springs on the front  cams, they turn the cams, it pulls in the tensioner, get slack around the waterpump. That's when it jumps, if there's too much slack.
So......if you turn the crank backwards and it jumps...it's not good enough. That's how you work out what thickness washer to use.

So expanding on that, it's about quality control and testing.
The common theme seems to be that not many seem to have any confidence in their own workmanship unless they're spending money on brand new parts?
New parts don't help if you don't know how to do an easy test afterwards.
Then from that, once you know how to test parts properly, you can reuse the old but good ones..............no different from flow testing fuel pumps, regulators and injectors and no different from bench testing ignition components and oxygen sensors.

Now expanding on the above even more, If you've gone to aftermarket or reground cams, it's going to have some sort of effect on the tensioner, same if you've fitted heavier valve springs, not that there's any need to.......more valve lift means more spring load and stronger springs mean more spring load........affects how quickly the tensioner gets pulled in when the engine is sitting unused.
If you HAVE done the above mods, you really can't expect replacement cams to work properly if they're not degreed, to do that properly and to minimise measured timing errors, the cambelt needs to be as tight as possible so there's no backlash in the cams.......that's the only purpose for a solid tensioner.


I can't comment on non OEM tensioners because I've always re used the old ones.
BUT if they're anything like most other aftermarket parts, I wouldn't bother.
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
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Ivant
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Re: Facebook

Sun 05 May, 2019 11:15 am

Reading about the arguing between the young and the old on here reminded me of an episode I had with my young 16 year old nephew a while back.  I was taking him for a drive for the first time in my GTO, and he asked me why I kept moving the gear lever all the time. I looked at him in amazement and replied that I needed to change gear on a regular basis, to which he said why.  Because it's a manual. What's a manual? I suddenly realized that he had never been in a manual car before, only autos, and was very interested in what I was doing, and what's more he wanted to know all about it, so I explained how it all worked.
It just goes to show that as oldies that have been around for a long time, and take for granted what we know, and sometimes forget that the very young don't know a lot, and will only find out about something if we take the time and have the patience to teach them. 
I quite enjoyed explaining to a younger person how something worked, as it's not everyday that I do something like that. But that's just me. I know everybody's not the same.  
 
 
magn1t
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Re: Facebook

Sun 05 May, 2019 2:51 pm

I like your example of the manual gearbox.......which reminds me, I've been doing driving lessons on the weekends for one of the young fellas at work. He can drive an auto but not a manual, well he CAN now. He drives our forklift at work as do others but not me....I don't know anything about forklifts.....lol.
We've got uneven ground along with a bit of a hill and the forklift keeps on getting stuck.
The young fella, he's still a teenager, doesn't have a problem asking and so still doesn't have the sh** attitude that older people get, usually when they're in their later 20s and even later 30s. Getting the forklift stuck on a slope is a big problem with an easy solution. The older drivers, like I said, they tend to have that same sh** attitude where they've done the course, think they know what they're doing, it's the forklift and the ground that's at fault. NOT their driving abilities, they won't ask because they don't want to end up feeling silly, or rather sillier.
We've been having a bit of silent  fun after I explained to the young fella the how and why of getting stuck and the really simple fix to it.
He hasn't got stuck on the slope since.......the others do and only 2 of us know why?
The other drivers can't figure it out and we're not telling.
It's all about the sh** attitude....with a sh** attitude you  will never be able to learn.
The worst culprit for getting stuck is the boss , he does what a lot of bosses do..........If you don't know the answer, start making it all up, most will never know.......but I will.
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
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Ivant
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Re: Facebook

Sun 05 May, 2019 10:27 pm

magn1t wrote:
I like your example of the manual gearbox.......which reminds me, I've been doing driving lessons on the weekends for one of the young fellas at work. He can drive an auto but not a manual, well he CAN now. He drives our forklift at work as do others but not me....I don't know anything about forklifts.....lol.
We've got uneven ground along with a bit of a hill and the forklift keeps on getting stuck.
The young fella, he's still a teenager, doesn't have a problem asking and so still doesn't have the sh** attitude that older people get, usually when they're in their later 20s and even later 30s. Getting the forklift stuck on a slope is a big problem with an easy solution. The older drivers, like I said, they tend to have that same sh** attitude where they've done the course, think they know what they're doing, it's the forklift and the ground that's at fault. NOT their driving abilities, they won't ask because they don't want to end up feeling silly, or rather sillier.
We've been having a bit of silent  fun after I explained to the young fella the how and why of getting stuck and the really simple fix to it.
He hasn't got stuck on the slope since.......the others do and only 2 of us know why?
The other drivers can't figure it out and we're not telling.
It's all about the sh** attitude....with a sh** attitude you  will never be able to learn.
The worst culprit for getting stuck is the boss , he does what a lot of bosses do..........If you don't know the answer, start making it all up, most will never know.......but I will.

Seems like you're both having a bit of fun at the boss's expense, and striking up a bit of a friendship with the young fella at the same time. good on you. 
 
magn1t
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Re: Facebook

Mon 06 May, 2019 8:15 pm

Think on this for a while.....it's no different from kids and modified cars and fakebook and forums.

We "dabble" with arcade machines at work (speed up, Tokyo wars, indy 500, terminator 2......), by "dabble" , the boss likes playing with them and I've always seen them as nothing more than a waste of time, space and money, never had any interest.
We've picked up quite a lot of old ones which have been sitting around broken for a number of years...........not unlike failed car projects.
So take them one at a time, they've been patched up by inexperienced, unqualified people, you can tell just by looking.
They don't go, they don't have just one fault but many. Some caused by previous repairs, some by old age and some by possums, rats and mice while in storage.
Boss man doesn't like me calling them all lemons or turds or whatever else.

Arcade games.......there's really not a lot to them, not when you break it down.
They come from Japan or Murica, designed for 110v AC, The NZ ones run off 230V AC, have a 230 to 110 stepdown transformer, have a 110V PSU to give +12, +5 and maybe -12 or -5 to the game board, the video board is 110v AC input, RGB video input CGA,  essentially an american TV (NTSC)  minus the tuner.
The power supplies all die due to the electrolytic capacitors as do the video boards. The game boards are pretty much not fixable due to lack of circuit diagrams and parts but are otherwise very reliable. CRTs lose their brightness over time, lose focus etc, specially when they never get turned off.
The quick fix is usually a conversion to flat screen LCD with a china com converter but the converters seem to all crap out, also use a second hand PC power supply for the +12 and +5, so long as you can find a good one which means knowing how to test them under load.
That just leaves the game board........It's quicker but not better than fixing the real problems.


So I get the message passed on to me from boss man.........if they don't work, check the 5 v supply with a meter and turn it up to 5.2v, it often fixes them....

BUT
The original PSUs have adjustable 5v outputs......it's only for the original setup , NOT for fixing faults at a later date.

Me......no ......it doesn't work like that.........who TF told you that?....oh this bloke here, he's been fixing them for years.....me.......no he's just making it all up, he's just a salesman like you and he's got no effing idea and he just read that on an arcade forum just like you did yourself...........AND if I do what you say it'll crap out next week and you won't be happy, even less happy now that I've told you.
me.......
The 5v supply is supposed to be exactly 5v.
If you use a meter and it's less than 5 volt .......you're using the wrong instrument because they get ripple on them from failed capacitors, it reads the average voltage and you should be using an oscilloscope to see the ripple.
AND
IF you turn it up to 5.2 you stand a good chance of blowing everything up.
AND if it does actually work then there's a fault somewhere else (maybe a loss of 0.2v between the PSU and game board?) that needs fixing properly before it blows up which means you've got to turn the 5V back down to where it was .........SO..........you're using guesswork AND you're having to do the job 3 times now because you did it wrong the first time.....by using the wrong tools and the wrong method.........and BTW ............why don't you just go get HIM to fix it for you instead on ME.......like WTF would I know.........I'm only government trained , did board repairs for NZPO / Telecom for 15 years and done the same for myself for more than another 15 years.....AND you should know that because you've been told before and that's why I'm here ......and ........why don't you just go back to the office and leave me alone, go do some more deals on the phone....and keep off the arcade forums........




Just turn up the 5v to 5.2?
Try it on your car ECU?
Well no you can't, there's no adjustment.


Kids like to fiddle, if you can.......but if you can't?
That's what makes programmable aftermarket ECUs so good for your car.....more ways to get it completely wrong when you don't know WTF you're doing and blow it all up.



Why put a knob on a power supply anyway?
So that the person with zero knowledge, zero tools and zero skills can fiddle with it?
When there's nothing else they can fiddle with.
See....everything is on ewetoob.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9JNeP3tiaY
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
magn1t
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Re: Facebook

Sun 12 May, 2019 6:35 pm

Like here....the tensioner has gone?...gone where?
https://www.facebook.com/hudson.portner ... 3953/?t=10


But the comments as per normal are good for a laugh.

Like

"time for a solid tensioner".


OK but think about it carefully?
All the kiddies are keen to give advice.....based on zero real world experience......or maybe....I just read it on the interweb?...
or..I've been told or I've heard?
A solid tensioner will fix it.....the tensioner fails?

No.
The most common failure point is the bolt but you can't make money bullshitting people to buy a fancy part which is nothing more than a bolt.




edit......so ....because everything fails for a reason?
Why does the bolt come loose?



Try this for some deductive reasoning?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9PY_3E3h2c
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
magn1t
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Re: Facebook

Fri 31 May, 2019 10:29 am

This one here's a real crack up.......is it normal?
Mine does it
So does mine
And mine
Mine too


So nothing to worry about then?

No, it's normal, nothing to worry about.



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 24vB&ifg=1


More crap aftermarket parts which have no place in a real car.



Whatever fuel leaks through the leaking valve won't make it to the injectors so your injectors will never have the ability to use the full flow potential of the pump....... even stock FPRs can have this problem when there's dirt stuck in the valve. Easy to fix too.



The gif of the muppets is quite appropriate , it's also the same person asking why one sparkplug is oiled up.
More muppets giving replies.

Bad parts
Fuel pressure wrong 
Piston broke.
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
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Gazza
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Re: Facebook

Fri 31 May, 2019 3:17 pm

That is pretty funny actually.

Also,
magn1t wrote:
The most common failure point is the bolt but you can't make money bullshitting people to buy a fancy part which is nothing more than a bolt.

ARP have been doing that quite successfully over the years.  People still seem to think that the OEM head bolts are some sort of weak point :lol:
Image
au naturel.
 
magn1t
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Re: Facebook

Sun 02 Jun, 2019 3:22 pm

Not only do we have stupid people telling kiddies that a fault condition is "normal".
We've also got kiddies asking a question about a "normal" condition thinking it's a fault.?
By that I'm referring to the rolling idle speed, a cold engine will idle a lot faster if the car is moving, compared to when it's stopped.....it's normal unless you've disabled the speed limiter.

https://www.facebook.com/karl.schlegel.33/videos/2622446874451921/?t=0

Nothing to do with the ABS which is a different problem. Usually a relay with burnt contacts.


As far as ARP studs goes, the original use for them was on the smallblock Chev V8, that makes sense when doing frequent head removals because some of the bolts go through the deck and into the water jacket. Studs can be sealed and then you don't need to worry about coolant leaks. Apart from that there's no difference between a stud and a bolt. Even BMC A series engines used studs from the factory. In the case of BMC, they use a UNC thread in the cast iron block and a UNF thread at the nut end. That means you need less torque on the nut to get the same clamping force. Or...a stud will always give greater clamping force for the same applied torque.
When you want to increase the sales volume you employ marketers who are really nothing more than compulsive liars.....they make things up in order to get sales....only because the majority of potential customers are far too stupid to work anything out for themselves.....they need to ask .
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
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Chronos_c4
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Re: Facebook

Mon 03 Jun, 2019 8:03 pm

magn1t wrote:
By that I'm referring to the rolling idle speed, a cold engine will idle a lot faster if the car is moving, compared to when it's stopped.....it's normal unless you've disabled the speed limiter.

why not just say that then? make a comment and remove any confusion?
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magn1t
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Re: Facebook

Mon 03 Jun, 2019 8:25 pm

Chronos_c4 wrote:
magn1t wrote:
By that I'm referring to the rolling idle speed, a cold engine will idle a lot faster if the car is moving, compared to when it's stopped.....it's normal unless you've disabled the speed limiter.

why not just say that then? make a comment and remove any confusion?

I HAVE done.
I don't do FB GTO performance for some reason....I'm read only.
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
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Chronos_c4
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Re: Facebook

Mon 03 Jun, 2019 8:32 pm

Hang on, so, a problem/question on the FB group was placed and you think that putting a useful answer here is going to help? Without actually telling the person that its here, or linking them the thread post and making them come to the forum to see it?

Interesting.... unsure how things are ever going to get better by doing that...

There's nothing stopping you re-joining the group and commenting, as long as its constructive/adult like any normal person your age should be able to manage.
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magn1t
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Re: Facebook

Mon 03 Jun, 2019 8:56 pm

I find the whole thing very interesting from a psychological / mental health point of view , not just from a "car" perspective.


Think about it?

People more than happy to try to help someone else even when they've got no idea and their suggestions make everything worse.
AND
Others who equally have no idea about anything,thinking there's a problem when there's not.
Makes you wonder about the current state of our education system?
These people all have the right to vote for the next government.
The future of human evolution is doomed.
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
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Chronos_c4
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Re: Facebook

Mon 03 Jun, 2019 9:09 pm

So all of this is some sort of experiment to you? Once again avoiding the topic of the previous post about how childish you're being?

Think about it?

You hide in the background on FB, leaving childish laughing-faces on peoples comments, then come to the forum just to whinge about how horrible the Tech help on FB group is?
And yet all this time you could have just simply stood in and become a role model to everyone, counseling the correct (or most correct) advice and actually help people keep their cars going?
Except after 10+ years in this group you are pretty much the exact same person.

Inevitably the only thing you're doing is giving people a reason not to come to the forum, spouting that the world is out to get you and industry just wants to sell you failed mods to make money.
Clearly there is some merit behind that, but that seems to be your go-to rant for anyone who can find the energy to read it
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BATOOH
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Re: Facebook

Wed 05 Jun, 2019 8:32 am

magn1t wrote:
I find the whole thing very interesting from a psychological / mental health point of view , not just from a "car" perspective.


Think about it?

People more than happy to try to help someone else even when they've got no idea and their suggestions make everything worse.
AND
Others who equally have no idea about anything,thinking there's a problem when there's not.
Makes you wonder about the current state of our education system?
These people all have the right to vote for the next government.
The future of human evolution is doomed.

I thought about it.... generally speaking the owners of GTO's posting on FB are young, inexperienced (in most things) but moreover mechanical items, seduced by the Ferrari looks of the GTO sports car and can afford a few thousand to buy one.. This is not representational of the whole of society so I don't think we're doomed!! This is hastening the increase in value of the remaining GTO fleet, so those who maintain and perservere with their GTO's needs will be rewarded into the future. And by that I'm talking 10 years not 2.

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