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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Posted: Thu 31 Aug, 2017 10:10 am
by BATOOH
magn1t wrote:
A stock computer doesn't have a power limit.
Neither does a piggyback.
Nor an aftermarket computer.

The power limit is determined by how much air and fuel it can consume.

A stock ECU has fixed fuel and ignition maps Steve. A Link type ECU doesn't.

Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Posted: Thu 31 Aug, 2017 10:13 am
by BATOOH
box wrote:
That's a really good price. ...

Thanks Mate for the advice and the Download. I thought it was going to be a 200 pager  but 40 pages is pleasantly surprising. Yeah I was thinking about the CAS for a while and I was thinking wow!!

Re: GTO Second fuel pump- Hotwire, rewire or parallel it?

Posted: Mon 18 Sep, 2017 8:09 pm
by BATOOH
I know you will answer this post Box (Well I hope you do, there are not many others out there with your knowledge of this car!) But hey happy to hear from anybody with a viewpoint...

I have dropped in a surge tank and have plumbed it with a Bosch 044 stolen out of my Jag (worst thing you can do but par for my course..). I had run a good thick 3mm copper wire from the Engine Bay  to the new pump with room to splice in the in tank pump. But last night when I looked at the wiring diagrams and thought about it a bit more... I decided to leave the In tank pump powered as stock ie via Engine Control Relay- Fuel pump relay w/- ECU control -via resistor all 1.5 square mm cables. I like the fact that the in tank pump primes itself and then shuts off when you haven't started the engine, but it must start when the engine turns over. An important item - I thought - was rollover protection whereby the in tank FP shuts down in event of a rollover. But I can't see how that occurs looking at the diagrams now. Maybe that was Crash sensor overidden and they and  ABS and Airbags are long gone. 

So I thought it would be easy to attach the new blue wire to Pin 2 on the FP resistor, this would give me like for like but I don't like the resistor getting in the way of the voltage! and both pumps are being fed by a single 1.25 sq mm wire...

So I thought bang the new blue wire onto Pin 5 of the FP relay- which is the same as Pin 2 of the Engine control relay...  however if I attach at Pin 2 of the EC relay I suffer no voltage drop or heating of the 1.25mm wire running from that pin to the FP relay. AND ! Pin 2 of the EC relay has a 2sq mm feeder (pin 3). But I don't like that EC relay- it's like a slug relay and makes an audible click about 15 seconds after you switch the ignition key off. I'm worried I may have an incident and a pump or pumps may just keep going for those 15 seconds or longer whether the key is on or off! Being stock the In tank probably would anyway.

What would you do Box? I want to get this right.

Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Posted: Mon 18 Sep, 2017 8:49 pm
by box
The factory fuel pump doesn't prime when you turn the key on. 
The factory fuel pump doesn't stay on after the key is turned off. 
As far as I'm aware, there's no electrical inertia/roll over switch in the system. 

I would wire in another relay to run the second pump with its own power supply and fuse, triggered off pin 7 at the MFI relay. For peace of mind, wire the circuit between pin 7 and the engine ECU through a dash mounted or external kill switch.

The 044 is a hefty pump though, you'll overrun the return line and standard pressure regulator if you've got it running at 12v. 

Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Posted: Tue 19 Sep, 2017 10:24 pm
by BATOOH
box wrote:
The factory fuel pump doesn't prime when you turn the key on. 
The factory fuel pump doesn't stay on after the key is turned off. 
As far as I'm aware, there's no electrical inertia/roll over switch in the system. 

I would wire in another relay to run the second pump with its own power supply and fuse, triggered off pin 7 at the MFI relay. For peace of mind, wire the circuit between pin 7 and the engine ECU through a dash mounted or external kill switch.


The 044 is a hefty pump though, you'll overrun the return line and standard pressure regulator if you've got it running at 12v. 

Cheers Thanks mate- will give this a go. Got an AEM Regulator. Yeah you're right it's not the pump priming when you turn the key one, it's something else, haven't managed to dtermine exactly what just yet..

Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Posted: Wed 20 Sep, 2017 6:47 pm
by magn1t
The AEM FPR can't handle the flow of a big pump without the pressure going out of control.
It's actually WORSE than a stock one.

The pump primes from the key in the start position then it keeps on running so long as there's a signal from the CAS.
No CAS signal.......no pump.

Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Posted: Thu 21 Sep, 2017 8:40 pm
by BATOOH
haha Steve  The "Chinese" Aem is going alright mate!!! Or Should I say "Ricese"...

Previously 3 bar on FPR gauge, with Bosch 044 now showing 2.5 bar.... Whys that ?? no changes apart from "Sense" wire being  connected directly to Alternator output and I checked Voltages before and after and with Sense being connected it was 14.5 volts at the battery terminals and 15.5 (Can't remember but it was over 15 without the connection!! Thanks again Box. Thats what killed my first AGM battery- overvoltage!...

Now why do I think my Ricese AEM reg is doing ok??? Because there's a 300 LPH Deatschwerks pump sitting inside the tank and has been for three or 4 years mate!! hah ha. And let me know what you think of deatschwerks Steve, The box says Sheridan, Oklahoma City. Now I'm sure you will find that in CHINA  somewhere mate- good luck - be my guest.

Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Posted: Thu 21 Sep, 2017 9:47 pm
by magn1t
The spec is 2.3 bar at idle when they leave the factory.

Re: overboosting??

Posted: Mon 09 Oct, 2017 5:38 pm
by BATOOH
mmmm Had a bit of a hiccup at the last event. ironed out a  few things that were changed and unfortunately the engine in this race car is wanting to boost way high. By that I mean I have to control the boost level with my right foot. Now I did do a number of chnages all at once and in retrospect that was silly -without testing each one as I made them. Ok so biggest ones were substituting an older but a good HKS ssqv for the stock BOV, surge tank setup using the Bosch 044 and the AEM FPR, and fitting two really really cheap boost gauges to the pressure nipples on each 15g Comp housing ( simply to see the pressure comparison - if any). The latter necessitated a move of the Profec B spec Wastegate solenoid pressure supply from the rear turbo nipple to the Y pipe pre throttle body. Ok it boosted really high and fluttered at higher RPM'S, afr normal (with these mods above). anyway no boost registered on the front turbo and this threw me, it took me a week to work out I had originally blocked the front nipple with RTV and latterly capped it with a rubber cap forgetting I had sealed it internally! so thats sorted and I removed the rear turbo boost gauge and refitted the wastegate solenoid pressure feed.  yES i DID SEAL UP THE y PIPE AGAIN! Anyway at the event I had zeroed off the EBC hoping that I might just run at Wastegate spring pressure. but this was not the case it was wanting to go way over 20psi and my main gauge only reads 20 psi max.

Ok first observation is that the HKS BOV is not leaking and thats probably why this thing is allowing more boost. I could never get this thing past about 17psi and that always bothered me. Now I know why, the stock BOV blows open at around 16-19 psi so thats why you always hear that the max pressure the 9b's can support is 18-19 PSI.

Second observation is that Wastegates were preloaded by three turns. I have now backed this off to zero. I haven't had a chance to run her down the road today, I've already done that once today and thats enough. Too many cops.

So has anybody substitued a BOV that doesn't blow open and if so did you find you had to reset/alter the Wastegates/EBC??

On the positive side f*** this thing is going to be fast and it now makes a better turbo/BOV noise even though I was probably flirting with a bit too much Knock.

Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Posted: Tue 10 Oct, 2017 10:04 am
by magn1t
BATOOH wrote:

So has anybody substitued a BOV that doesn't blow open and if so did you find you had to reset/alter the Wastegates/EBC??





Of course, I'm running a pair of modded GTO BOVs on the black car and a modded evo BOV on the red car.
Once they're modded, they don't leak so they hold as much boost as you want.

Tech article here from 5 years ago.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2844

Entertainment value enhanced by a mentally deranged "skates".

There's several vids of mine on ewe tube too like......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9JRbr1Cfuc

 BTW.... Jeff Lucius is well and truly wrong on the subject, they don't leak.....they open. There's a big difference.




If you back off the preload on the WGs then you'll get loss of initial boost, then when you turn it up with an EBC you get boost spiking and then get loss of boost when the exhaust pressure blows the WGs open.
The ONLY way to set them correctly is with compressed air and a pressure gauge directly on the WG.