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BATOOH
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GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Tue 13 Sep, 2011 7:25 pm

GTO Racing Project. Somebody has to do it!
A couple of months ago my son and I bought a cheap TT ($1,000) off Trademe specifically for the purposes of turning into a track car. So what have we done to it yet- nothing as it’s too cold yet!, but I have some plans and the boy has been playin rep footy. When it warms up we are going to get it going and have a few sessions on weight reduction etc. I already have a TT which I have raced in a street sprint and well… what a humbling experience, but nevertheless an informative one. So the thought is that I have the mechanical um, flair, and he is a quicker driver (but only at go karts). We both share the $. But we are limited on funds, we don’t want to spend heaps of money, the goal is to do it well but as cheap as possible. So no punts on modifications- Yet!. We want to be competitive though, by that I mean Porcshe/R32/Evo quick. If I could get our GTO around Ruapuna in less than 1.30 I would have achieved the goal so to speak. Maybe that’s the ultimate goal?.

So lets get into it. Here are my plans, any thought welcome.

Major mods initially….

Weight reduction. Gut the car. Out with everything we don’t think will be of any use. Eventually I would like to see lexan windows or whatever they are called. But initially it’s just remove weight. That basically costs nothing.

Racing Coilovers specifically for track and heavier car. Wide rims, lighter weight too., I’m thinking 9inches minimum. Initially I might run toyo r888’s or Kumho ecksta or similar as the cost of bridgeys is phew Christ that’s why they were sponsoring FORMULA 1!!! Roll cage, I will probably spend extra and get the lighter version. Brakes will be evo 320mm slotted with initially stock callipers and yellow stuff pads, eventually all I can see is upgrade to Brembo at front and two potters at rear and some better pads if poss. I don’t see 350mm as necessary Yet, maybe I’m dreamin—aussies!! LOL.. I have crossdrilled stock with redstuff on my TT and braided lines and dot4 and she stopped ok on the street sprint. ABS was a bonus too but long story.

And finally the donk, initially stock 2 bolt 6g72 upgraded with td04HL 19t’s. eventually 4 bolt 6g72 with upgraded internals and keep the 19t’s. I’m after torque, not high rpm hp. This is the key to winning races with a GTO I reckon. So we shall see what happens… time will tell. Havn't got a starting pic yet.
 
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Ivant
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Wed 14 Sep, 2011 11:07 am

There's the crash pad behind the back bumper that I took off mine. It must weight about 15 kgs, and it wasn't too hard to get off either. There are steel crash bars in the doors as well, but I left them in as I decided that it wasn't worth the trouble to get them off. Most of the weight in these cars is in the body work that is far to thick. Plus the unnecessary four wheel steering, I have been told that the rear steering can be taken off, but I wouldn't know how that would be done. I think there is a web site showing how it can be done somewhere out there.
Take a few hundred kgs of weight off these cars and the performance must be fantastic. It's a pity mitsi's didn't think of that before making them so damn heavy.
 
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GTOrange
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Wed 14 Sep, 2011 11:39 am

All i can say is....Good luck. ;)
Been there done that. Consistently dicked on the evo's sti's and gtr's but you might need a bit more then 20k to compete with the Porcshe's.
Buy some quality suspension too otherwise you'll be looking at a shock rebuild after everytime you touch the ripple strip lol :D
Dont spend any money on fancy turbo work yet. go out and tarce the car with decent brakes tyres and suspension first.

Also look into what sort of second hand tyres you can get then buy wheels to suit.
17" ex NZV8 Slicks are cheap as to buy.
So too are the ex Porcshe cup car 18"s
 
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Markingtime
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Wed 14 Sep, 2011 12:40 pm

Nice to see someone building a road coarse track car. Most of the track car builds I know of are drag versions. I think our cars were made to be driven, not launched.
Mark
1994 3000GT VR4

There is no replacement for displacement.
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Wed 14 Sep, 2011 1:08 pm

Ivant wrote:
It must weight about 15 kgs, and it wasn't too hard to get off either. Most of the weight in these cars is in the body work that is far to thick. Plus the unnecessary four wheel steering, I have been told that the rear steering can be taken off, but I wouldn't know how that would be done. I think there is a web site showing how it can be done somewhere out there.
Take a few hundred kgs of weight off these cars and the performance must be fantastic. It's a pity mitsi's didn't think of that before making them so damn heavy.


Thanks Ivan. You raise some good points.I took the crash bar out of my road car, the yanks said it weighs 37lbs. It is very heavy. Unlikley to get shunted up the rear in a road car. Disagree about the ease of getting it out though,taking off rear bumper means taking all trim out of boot. Prick of a job for a taller fella. Weight of body is weird, I found that the floor pan is double skinned on the passenger side, found that out when mounting a fire extinguisher on the floor passenger side.Weird, maybe noise or rigidity issue. I'm going to keep the 4ws initially. I reckon it will help with overtaking manoeuvres esp at high speed. that is what is was designed for after all. later if it's detrimental - gone. Mitsi made these things as a grand tourer not a street sprinter so you can't really hold that against them!! Cheers.
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Wed 14 Sep, 2011 1:20 pm

Markingtime wrote:
Nice to see someone building a road coarse track car. Most of the track car builds I know of are drag versions. I think our cars were made to be driven, not launched.


Thanks mate. LOL I read a post once from a young guy who wrote that every GTO owner should try at least one 7000rpm launch at least once. he descibed it in his own words as just something unreal!!. I have done a few 5000rpm launches and yes I would also describe it as unreal, especially hwen compared to a 3k launch. So a 7k launch must be f amazing. Please note though I have manufactured my own transfer case strengthening bracket!
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Wed 14 Sep, 2011 2:30 pm

GTOrange wrote:
All i can say is....Good luck. ;)
Dont spend any money on fancy turbo work yet. go out and tarce the car with decent brakes tyres and suspension first.
Also look into what sort of second hand tyres you can get then buy wheels to suit.
17" ex NZV8 Slicks are cheap as to buy.
So too are the ex Porcshe cup car 18"s


Agreed Marcus on suspension and brakes and should have said NA porcshes!! Wasting my time with those GT2/3 things.

Just in process of bolting some td04h 15g's to the road car., would have been done by now but found large lip inside of manifold outlet so taking that(and the alternator etc) to deburr. got to do it properly. I'm going to try get spool up quickly on track car by keeping the turbo 6cm2 rather than larger and using either 9 or 11 blade turbine wheel (lighter- earlier spool up AND more room to blow through- less blades.).

Yes already looking at nzv8 slicks as they have been homolgated to 18 next year so at least one v8 racer selling his RE55'S online so far. Haven't got any 17 rims yet but they will/should accomodate the 320mm rotors. want to keep rolling diameter as small as poss as the gen 1 is the opposite of a close ratio gearbox!!!

cheers mate.
 
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Ivant
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Thu 15 Sep, 2011 11:22 am

BATOOH wrote:
Ivant wrote:
It must weight about 15 kgs, and it wasn't too hard to get off either. Most of the weight in these cars is in the body work that is far to thick. Plus the unnecessary four wheel steering, I have been told that the rear steering can be taken off, but I wouldn't know how that would be done. I think there is a web site showing how it can be done somewhere out there.
Take a few hundred kgs of weight off these cars and the performance must be fantastic. It's a pity mitsi's didn't think of that before making them so damn heavy.


Thanks Ivan. You raise some good points.I took the crash bar out of my road car, the yanks said it weighs 37lbs. It is very heavy. Unlikley to get shunted up the rear in a road car. Disagree about the ease of getting it out though,taking off rear bumper means taking all trim out of boot. Prick of a job for a taller fella. Weight of body is weird, I found that the floor pan is double skinned on the passenger side, found that out when mounting a fire extinguisher on the floor passenger side.Weird, maybe noise or rigidity issue. I'm going to keep the 4ws initially. I reckon it will help with overtaking manoeuvres esp at high speed. that is what is was designed for after all. later if it's detrimental - gone. Mitsi made these things as a grand tourer not a street sprinter so you can't really hold that against them!! Cheers.

I didn't take the rear bumper off when I did mine. I managed to slide it out under the bumper by pushing the bumper back a bit. It seemed to slide out without much trouble after I had all the bolts and crash brackets out of the way.
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Fri 16 Sep, 2011 6:02 pm

Ivant wrote:
.
I didn't take the rear bumper off when I did mine. I managed to slide it out under the bumper by pushing the bumper back a bit. It seemed to slide out without much trouble after I had all the bolts and crash brackets out of the way.


I had a feeling you did it that way, after I had removed mine I thought that there was maybe an easier way to do it. A good tip for others....

Cheers
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Fri 16 Sep, 2011 6:24 pm

Here are a few photos of some things I;ve been working on lately... Mmm this new computer is not easy to get used to loading photo,s....
DSC01571.JPG
DSC01580.JPG
DSC01574.JPG
:twisted:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
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Ivant
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 18 Sep, 2011 12:33 am

Just a couple of questions if you don't mind. You say the left side floor pan is double skinned. Is it much of a job to get it off. What I mean is,is it bolted on, or is it welded and a major to separate.
Plus, why have you made a bracket for your T/F case. There's 6 bolts holding it on. I would have thought that would be strong as.
Cheers
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 18 Sep, 2011 9:00 am

Ivant wrote:
Just a couple of questions if you don't mind. You say the left side floor pan is double skinned. Is it much of a job to get it off. What I mean is,is it bolted on, or is it welded and a major to separate.
Plus, why have you made a bracket for your T/F case. There's 6 bolts holding it on. I would have thought that would be strong as.
Cheers


I don't mind.I don't think you would want to deskin the body and even if you did it would be a nightmare of the largest proportion. The trans case in gen 1's is a known weak link in the drivetrain, amongst other things for cracking the front housing and eventually splitting apart under repeated hard launches (the yanks reckon about 30 will do it). See 3s for the versions of bracket and explanations of such and also google it if you want.... I intend to (using a heavy duty clutch and tran case bracket) give mine hell and if it breaks, it breaks, and I will know what the weaklink I have to fix is!!

On the subject of weight reduction I looked at using a race seat, because if you have pulled out the drivers seat of your Gen 1 GTO (not sure of later ones), they weigh about 30kgs, maybe more! They are like boat anchors but lovely to sit in!. I bought a set off t/me about 2 yrs ago for a dollar and I am using as a stop gap a gutted drivers seat and will cut a hole in the front squab so I can fit a race harness. I was amazed at how many motors were in it. I have taken out 5 electric motors and all their associated gear wheels and drives etc. I am also cutting unecessary metal. I intend to set the position of the lumbar, side supports and tack weld fortunately me and other driver are same size. weight saving is uncalculated but now the seat is alot easier to throw around!! Cost about $1 in disc cutting wheels!!! will replace with proper race seat once we know what we are up against. cheers.
 
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GTOrange
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 18 Sep, 2011 9:22 am

I managed to get rid of just over 200kg's with mine.
Light weight wheels help too :D
 
magn1t
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 18 Sep, 2011 10:31 am

The transfer cases only break due to broken engine mounts or if you've got 1000HP and launch it on slics.
As for americans, it's the land of snake oil merchants, most of them are too thick to work things out.
I don't think those braces work anyway.

Steve
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
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Ivant
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 18 Sep, 2011 11:25 am

BATOOH wrote:
Ivant wrote:
Just a couple of questions if you don't mind. You say the left side floor pan is double skinned. Is it much of a job to get it off. What I mean is,is it bolted on, or is it welded and a major to separate.
Plus, why have you made a bracket for your T/F case. There's 6 bolts holding it on. I would have thought that would be strong as.
Cheers


I don't mind.I don't think you would want to deskin the body and even if you did it would be a nightmare of the largest proportion. The trans case in gen 1's is a known weak link in the drivetrain, amongst other things for cracking the front housing and eventually splitting apart under repeated hard launches (the yanks reckon about 30 will do it). See 3s for the versions of bracket and explanations of such and also google it if you want.... I intend to (using a heavy duty clutch and tran case bracket) give mine hell and if it breaks, it breaks, and I will know what the weaklink I have to fix is!!

On the subject of weight reduction I looked at using a race seat, because if you have pulled out the drivers seat of your Gen 1 GTO (not sure of later ones), they weigh about 30kgs, maybe more! They are like boat anchors but lovely to sit in!. I bought a set off t/me about 2 yrs ago for a dollar and I am using as a stop gap a gutted drivers seat and will cut a hole in the front squab so I can fit a race harness. I was amazed at how many motors were in it. I have taken out 5 electric motors and all their associated gear wheels and drives etc. I am also cutting unecessary metal. I intend to set the position of the lumbar, side supports and tack weld fortunately me and other driver are same size. weight saving is uncalculated but now the seat is alot easier to throw around!! Cost about $1 in disc cutting wheels!!! will replace with proper race seat once we know what we are up against. cheers.

Thanks for that. Very interesting about the seat. It would have been the last thing I would have looked at as a weight reduction item. I think I will look into it.
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 18 Sep, 2011 6:55 pm

GTOrange wrote:
I managed to get rid of just over 200kg's with mine.
Light weight wheels help too :D


Cheers, I think you had a road car, able to drive it to the track? so you had to keep lights in and stuff. We will take all that out in addition to the usual weight red. items. What size wheels were you running? I have heard of 18 x 10's on one of the pommy cars, he was using those for road wheels I think. Also after a little research the VOLK TE37's appear to be one of the lightest rims around at 19lbs (imperial not usa lbs), does anybody have any suggestions etc.??
 
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trent
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 18 Sep, 2011 7:25 pm

i have te37s on my sti type r .... light as hell .but they are only 17x7.5s i think
Invader_X wrote:
HEY! Whenever your around Auckland we can do that photo shoot ;)
Just call my name and I'll be there

YEAH RIGHT! in what car?haha

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Chronos_c4
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 02 Oct, 2011 3:54 pm

removing the bumper can be a long job but only if you arent using the service manual
and i know what you mean about it being harder on the taller people!
i managed to get the rear off in like 15mins without rushing once i had done it a few times

im assuming you are looking at lighter seats as well? i know that my 2nd gen drivers seat has like 8 motors in it and it weights a tonne! similiar with the passenger seat

and for wheels, generally drift wheels (usually aimed at the drift cars) such as the Diezel D1R's (what i have) are lighter than my old 16's and have plenty of clearance for the brake calipers, id imagine all drift-based wheels would have plenty of clearance as well.
mine are 18s holding 245 tyres and have had no issues racing on taupo and at work on the tarmac, as well as the odd blat around the mountain roads
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BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Thu 24 Nov, 2011 12:14 pm

Have made a little progress on the track car. Got a MOMO steering wheel out of a 90's GSR. Leather and jees what a bargain for $40. Real nice wheel.Half the weight of the OEM steering wheel at 2kg,s. God I hate the OEM wheels. Also bought secondhand ADVAN RG Wheels 17 X 8.5. These weigh about 17.5 pounds compared to OEM 16's at 25.3 lbs per rim! Gives clearance for the EVo brakes and keeps the rolling diameter as low as poss. The courier said sh** these are light! I was chuffed.

Stripped out the arse end and headlights, bought 4.5 inch simota poddy which will be mounted inside rhs headlight well with custom cold air scoop out of the old headlight cover!

Next job is brake calliper brackets. no time as prepping the road car for Chertsey 1/4 miles next week. Still got a 6 point harness to go in that. Hoping for 12 second qtr and 160mph+ terminal velocity after flying quarter. That is unless I stack it! so official results after december 3rd. Who's got the best 1/4 mile time in NZ, that is.... best validated time??? not dream time!!!LOL.
 
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Chronos_c4
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Fri 25 Nov, 2011 8:24 pm

track project car meaning you wont be needing a cert for taking your steering wheel off and losing the airbags aye>?
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LiQuid.Ace
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Fri 25 Nov, 2011 9:31 pm

Chronos_c4 wrote:
track project car meaning you wont be needing a cert for taking your steering wheel off and losing the airbags aye>?


IIRC, if the car is older than 14 years you don't need a cert for changing the wheel/removing air bags.
 
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Chronos_c4
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Fri 25 Nov, 2011 9:46 pm

looks like there would have been some mis-interpretation going on

http://www.lvvta.org.nz/knowledge_base.html#steering

http://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents/infos ... p_2004.pdf

mainly this:

Removal of airbag:
Airbags can only be permanently removed if:
(a) the vehicle has reached 14 years of age or more; or
(b) a specific motor racing alternative frontal impact protection system is installed and a
LVV Authority Card is issued for that vehicle for a specific driver. Currently, these can
only be issued by MotorSport New Zealand and always incorporate a roll-cage and full
harness seatbelts.
LVV Certification is always required for situation (a), whereas in the case of an LVV Authority
Card that specifies Alternative Frontal Impact Protection System, LVV Full certification with a
LVV Compliance Plate is not required unless other items like engine changes or suspension
modifications have also taken place


so this is telling me that your 14year rule means that you are allowed to take it out, where as a car younger than 14 cant have it removed at all unless it meets option b
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LiQuid.Ace
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Fri 25 Nov, 2011 10:15 pm

Mmm thats odd. Friend removed his, gets WOF's all the time from VTNZ and sh**.

VTNZ told him it didn't need one because it was over 14 years old.
 
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Chronos_c4
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Fri 25 Nov, 2011 10:19 pm

maybe coz its the lvvta it applies to different cars


will stop in at the local VTNZ tomro and see whats what
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GTOrange
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Fri 25 Nov, 2011 10:28 pm

I've been thru this a few years ago.

The rule was clear as.
younger then 14 years. had to keep the steering wheel or replace it with the same airbag unit.
older then 14 years, can remove it no worries and replace it with anything else but needs to be certified. My lLV Cert said on it that airbag removed and aftermarket steering wheel
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