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BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Thu 31 Aug, 2017 10:10 am

magn1t wrote:
A stock computer doesn't have a power limit.
Neither does a piggyback.
Nor an aftermarket computer.

The power limit is determined by how much air and fuel it can consume.

A stock ECU has fixed fuel and ignition maps Steve. A Link type ECU doesn't.
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Thu 31 Aug, 2017 10:13 am

box wrote:
That's a really good price. ...

Thanks Mate for the advice and the Download. I thought it was going to be a 200 pager  but 40 pages is pleasantly surprising. Yeah I was thinking about the CAS for a while and I was thinking wow!!
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Second fuel pump- Hotwire, rewire or parallel it?

Mon 18 Sep, 2017 8:09 pm

I know you will answer this post Box (Well I hope you do, there are not many others out there with your knowledge of this car!) But hey happy to hear from anybody with a viewpoint...

I have dropped in a surge tank and have plumbed it with a Bosch 044 stolen out of my Jag (worst thing you can do but par for my course..). I had run a good thick 3mm copper wire from the Engine Bay  to the new pump with room to splice in the in tank pump. But last night when I looked at the wiring diagrams and thought about it a bit more... I decided to leave the In tank pump powered as stock ie via Engine Control Relay- Fuel pump relay w/- ECU control -via resistor all 1.5 square mm cables. I like the fact that the in tank pump primes itself and then shuts off when you haven't started the engine, but it must start when the engine turns over. An important item - I thought - was rollover protection whereby the in tank FP shuts down in event of a rollover. But I can't see how that occurs looking at the diagrams now. Maybe that was Crash sensor overidden and they and  ABS and Airbags are long gone. 

So I thought it would be easy to attach the new blue wire to Pin 2 on the FP resistor, this would give me like for like but I don't like the resistor getting in the way of the voltage! and both pumps are being fed by a single 1.25 sq mm wire...

So I thought bang the new blue wire onto Pin 5 of the FP relay- which is the same as Pin 2 of the Engine control relay...  however if I attach at Pin 2 of the EC relay I suffer no voltage drop or heating of the 1.25mm wire running from that pin to the FP relay. AND ! Pin 2 of the EC relay has a 2sq mm feeder (pin 3). But I don't like that EC relay- it's like a slug relay and makes an audible click about 15 seconds after you switch the ignition key off. I'm worried I may have an incident and a pump or pumps may just keep going for those 15 seconds or longer whether the key is on or off! Being stock the In tank probably would anyway.

What would you do Box? I want to get this right.
 
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box
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Mon 18 Sep, 2017 8:49 pm

The factory fuel pump doesn't prime when you turn the key on. 
The factory fuel pump doesn't stay on after the key is turned off. 
As far as I'm aware, there's no electrical inertia/roll over switch in the system. 

I would wire in another relay to run the second pump with its own power supply and fuse, triggered off pin 7 at the MFI relay. For peace of mind, wire the circuit between pin 7 and the engine ECU through a dash mounted or external kill switch.

The 044 is a hefty pump though, you'll overrun the return line and standard pressure regulator if you've got it running at 12v. 
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BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Tue 19 Sep, 2017 10:24 pm

box wrote:
The factory fuel pump doesn't prime when you turn the key on. 
The factory fuel pump doesn't stay on after the key is turned off. 
As far as I'm aware, there's no electrical inertia/roll over switch in the system. 

I would wire in another relay to run the second pump with its own power supply and fuse, triggered off pin 7 at the MFI relay. For peace of mind, wire the circuit between pin 7 and the engine ECU through a dash mounted or external kill switch.


The 044 is a hefty pump though, you'll overrun the return line and standard pressure regulator if you've got it running at 12v. 

Cheers Thanks mate- will give this a go. Got an AEM Regulator. Yeah you're right it's not the pump priming when you turn the key one, it's something else, haven't managed to dtermine exactly what just yet..
 
magn1t
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Wed 20 Sep, 2017 6:47 pm

The AEM FPR can't handle the flow of a big pump without the pressure going out of control.
It's actually WORSE than a stock one.

The pump primes from the key in the start position then it keeps on running so long as there's a signal from the CAS.
No CAS signal.......no pump.
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Thu 21 Sep, 2017 8:40 pm

haha Steve  The "Chinese" Aem is going alright mate!!! Or Should I say "Ricese"...

Previously 3 bar on FPR gauge, with Bosch 044 now showing 2.5 bar.... Whys that ?? no changes apart from "Sense" wire being  connected directly to Alternator output and I checked Voltages before and after and with Sense being connected it was 14.5 volts at the battery terminals and 15.5 (Can't remember but it was over 15 without the connection!! Thanks again Box. Thats what killed my first AGM battery- overvoltage!...

Now why do I think my Ricese AEM reg is doing ok??? Because there's a 300 LPH Deatschwerks pump sitting inside the tank and has been for three or 4 years mate!! hah ha. And let me know what you think of deatschwerks Steve, The box says Sheridan, Oklahoma City. Now I'm sure you will find that in CHINA  somewhere mate- good luck - be my guest.
 
magn1t
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Thu 21 Sep, 2017 9:47 pm

The spec is 2.3 bar at idle when they leave the factory.
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
BATOOH
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Re: overboosting??

Mon 09 Oct, 2017 5:38 pm

mmmm Had a bit of a hiccup at the last event. ironed out a  few things that were changed and unfortunately the engine in this race car is wanting to boost way high. By that I mean I have to control the boost level with my right foot. Now I did do a number of chnages all at once and in retrospect that was silly -without testing each one as I made them. Ok so biggest ones were substituting an older but a good HKS ssqv for the stock BOV, surge tank setup using the Bosch 044 and the AEM FPR, and fitting two really really cheap boost gauges to the pressure nipples on each 15g Comp housing ( simply to see the pressure comparison - if any). The latter necessitated a move of the Profec B spec Wastegate solenoid pressure supply from the rear turbo nipple to the Y pipe pre throttle body. Ok it boosted really high and fluttered at higher RPM'S, afr normal (with these mods above). anyway no boost registered on the front turbo and this threw me, it took me a week to work out I had originally blocked the front nipple with RTV and latterly capped it with a rubber cap forgetting I had sealed it internally! so thats sorted and I removed the rear turbo boost gauge and refitted the wastegate solenoid pressure feed.  yES i DID SEAL UP THE y PIPE AGAIN! Anyway at the event I had zeroed off the EBC hoping that I might just run at Wastegate spring pressure. but this was not the case it was wanting to go way over 20psi and my main gauge only reads 20 psi max.

Ok first observation is that the HKS BOV is not leaking and thats probably why this thing is allowing more boost. I could never get this thing past about 17psi and that always bothered me. Now I know why, the stock BOV blows open at around 16-19 psi so thats why you always hear that the max pressure the 9b's can support is 18-19 PSI.

Second observation is that Wastegates were preloaded by three turns. I have now backed this off to zero. I haven't had a chance to run her down the road today, I've already done that once today and thats enough. Too many cops.

So has anybody substitued a BOV that doesn't blow open and if so did you find you had to reset/alter the Wastegates/EBC??

On the positive side f*** this thing is going to be fast and it now makes a better turbo/BOV noise even though I was probably flirting with a bit too much Knock.
 
magn1t
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Tue 10 Oct, 2017 10:04 am

BATOOH wrote:

So has anybody substitued a BOV that doesn't blow open and if so did you find you had to reset/alter the Wastegates/EBC??





Of course, I'm running a pair of modded GTO BOVs on the black car and a modded evo BOV on the red car.
Once they're modded, they don't leak so they hold as much boost as you want.

Tech article here from 5 years ago.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2844

Entertainment value enhanced by a mentally deranged "skates".

There's several vids of mine on ewe tube too like......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9JRbr1Cfuc

 BTW.... Jeff Lucius is well and truly wrong on the subject, they don't leak.....they open. There's a big difference.




If you back off the preload on the WGs then you'll get loss of initial boost, then when you turn it up with an EBC you get boost spiking and then get loss of boost when the exhaust pressure blows the WGs open.
The ONLY way to set them correctly is with compressed air and a pressure gauge directly on the WG.
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 22 Oct, 2017 9:54 am

Absolutely baffled now. Took preload off wastegate actuators. still same- overboosting. Checked that Actuators are working with the compessor tyre inflator. gee hard to get 10 psi out of that but actuators are opening I reckon between 10-20 psi. It is really hard to accurately identify this but I tried and tried and it is def 10-20 psi. Checked that BOV valve is working and it's working fine. (I know this is not associated to overboosting but it was just peace of mind). I turned off the EBC and still the same. I disconnected the EBC wastegate hose so that no pressure is applied to actuators- still the same...???? 

So what has happened to my engine? It is running fine, holding coolant, going like an absolute rocket. and I can't figure out the overboosting bit. Ok next trick revert to Stock BOV and check... I am wondering if the 15g's are just too much for the stock wastegates to handle?? in the situation where there is no leakage/opening of the BOV at higher boost pressures.
 
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box
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 22 Oct, 2017 2:24 pm

You need a more accurate way of testing the actuators. "10-20 psi" isn't good enough (I'm sure you already know this).

15gs work fine with the standard actuators. 

You can't just disconnect a hose from the EBC solenoid, you've got to bypass it (i.e. connect the hoses together) or the wastegates won't open. Connect a hose directly from each wastegate actuator to a boost source and road test again.
Image
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 22 Oct, 2017 5:55 pm

box wrote:
You need a more accurate way of testing the actuators. "10-20 psi" isn't good enough (I'm sure you already know this).

15gs work fine with the standard actuators. 

You can't just disconnect a hose from the EBC solenoid, you've got to bypass it (i.e. connect the hoses together) or the wastegates won't open. Connect a hose directly from each wastegate actuator to a boost source and road test again.

Two of the best minds in the Industry have just told me the same thing and you are one of them Box.!! The other was on a FB post. Thanks I will do this test tomorrow and let you know.
 
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box
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 22 Oct, 2017 6:52 pm

I've come into possession of another 4 bolt engine if you're still wanting one. Message me if so. 
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BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Mon 23 Oct, 2017 7:33 am

box wrote:
I've come into possession of another 4 bolt engine if you're still wanting one. Message me if so. 

Cheers, PM'd you re the 4 bolt. BUT.... 
FOUND THE PROBLEM. It was a one way 5mm Tube joiner I had used between the Turbo and the EBC Solenoid. It was blocking any pressure to the Solenoid. Now this is the second time this has happened to me ( I admit I'm a dummy) and it's because the Solenoid has 6mm barbs and the Turbo has 4mm. Just the same as the Manifold (6mm) and the SSQV (4MM). So I use 5mm joiners to allow the vac clips to at least give a good hold on the larger diameter tube. I have now thrown out all my one way joiners as I will never need them - will I ??!!    Actually is there a magic solution to this problem on GTO's?? 
 
BATOOH
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Re: Emanage Ultimate....

Wed 01 Nov, 2017 7:06 am

I've had a bit of a look at this Ultimate I scored a few mths ago. It was out of an EVO and has an EVO - 4 Plug adaptor harness (labelled M-5). And another little Greddy item wired into the harness setup, God knows what that is. There is another 2 wire plug  ended connection - presumably thats for a MAP sensor. So easy enough to chop the evo setup off the loom but what about that little Greddy box and all the other little connector points ( 3 of ) formed into the loom conversion between the stock 4 plug and the converted 4 plug that goes into an EVO ECU??

What sort of MAP sensor do you use Box??
 
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box
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Wed 01 Nov, 2017 6:47 pm

I used a 3 bar (I think?) GM MAP sensor but it reads the wrong pressure when connected to the eManage (voltage output at x psi is different to the Greddy sensor at x psi). It still works fine, it just gives you the wrong reading in the datalogger and on your tuning maps. Once you know how far out it is, you can work/tune around it. 

If you're going to go out and buy a MAP sensor, you may as well just buy a proper Greddy one. I had GM sensors available to me cheap at the time which is why I used it. 

No idea what the little Greddy box is without seeing it, maybe just an injector resistor box thing. More than likely no use to you anyway, just get rid of it. 
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BATOOH
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Re: Emanage Ultimate....

Thu 02 Nov, 2017 8:15 am

Thanks mate. I will get a photo of that little Greddy item on here somehow, just for curiousity's sake. I will cut the EVO adaptor away from the Emanage loom and leave plenty of wire for identification should somebody else downstream of here want to ressurect it, and it lets me see what was what as well. As far as using a MAP sensor goes I don't really know what it will do for me in terms of ease of use/programming so I will leave that for now, although it would be interesting to find out if the NZ performance world uses and expects these for Dyno tuning.

Things haven't started too well with this upgrade as I broke three of the four allen key screws off the back cover plate when I opened it up to check the Jumpers. However I can fix it easy enough I hope I have a tap that small or else it's just gonna get some self tapper screws. And all the jumpers were as instructed and didn't need changing ...!!
 
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box
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Thu 02 Nov, 2017 6:57 pm

The NZ performance world expects a Link ECU or another current model standalone ECU that they sell. Anything else blows their mind and will be used as an excuse for the cause of anything they can't figure out. 

I think I said it above (somewhere), the MAP sensor isn't really needed. 
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BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Thu 02 Nov, 2017 10:58 pm

So True!!! This is what Spe Performance said....

[Hi there , My advise. Don’t waste your time fitting a emanage to you vehicle!! . Thanks Jon ].     This is copied..... there are two spelling and one grammar error inside that short reply and it made me laugh as I had just read about young kids dyno tuning your ride being only capable of understanding basics not advanced tuning techniques. But then again I'm no rocket scientist!.

Did you see that post I did a couple of months ago re Link ECU for GTO??? Maybe this is it....

http://www.nzefi.com/product/link-g4-kurofune-ecu/

When I was looking at the picture showing the connections I thought that this looked familiar!! So I grabbed a spare TT ecu and the Plug/Pin counts are identical!!



[size=100][color=#950000][img=814x185]http://www.nzefi.com/wp-content/uploads/Kurofune-Header-Connector-Pinout.jpg[/img][/color]

 [/size]
Maybe the pin assignment is all to hell but for me this begs the question that did HKS design a piggyback (HKS F-CON V Pro ECU) based upon the GTO and Nissan  r series ECU plug/pinouts. I will have to spend a little time and check out the GTO pin assignments...
Last edited by BATOOH on Tue 07 Nov, 2017 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
magn1t
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Fri 03 Nov, 2017 9:40 am

Don't pay a boy to do a man's job.

It will always end up done wrong.
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
BATOOH
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Re: Back to Square One! Do Not Pass Go!

Sat 04 Nov, 2017 6:34 am

Bugger, hit a snag here in that Spec Performance and NZEFI will not Dyno Tune my GTO with an Ultimate in it.! So that just leaves Harmans which is a 2 wheel dyno and another Dyno outfit which seems like a bit of a lower end outfit. So I'm stymied up this path. 

Anyway looks like that LINK KuroFune is only a piggy back item not a full ECU and the other annoying factor is that LINK only put plenty of in/outputs on their ECU's in the G4 range thereby negating the use of the lower end ATOM and Monsoon products which are considerably less expensive. Funny that isn't it. And Link say they don't know what the GTO specific plug in Link ECU is as advertised on EBAY...

If I throw out the stock ECU I will lose speedo and Tacho and CEL light/logging, thats hard to get your head around, although I suppose you don't need those. There is one bonus though and that is the Greddy Profec EBC would be freed up from my race car and able to go back into my Roady.
 
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box
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sat 04 Nov, 2017 8:47 am

The speedo is driven off the vehicle speed sensor, the tacho and CEL will run off any aftermarket ECU. Datalogging works fine on any aftermarket ECU too but knock detection is hit and miss. 

All the current wire in ECUs are in the G4+ range, whether it's Atom or Xtreme. What makes you think the Kurofune is a piggyback? How many inputs and outputs do you actually need on a race car? 

Last time I priced it up, there was hardly any difference in price between a Storm and an Xtreme so if you're going to go through all the trouble of buying a new one and wiring it in, you may as well spend the negligible extra amount and get more bells+whistles. 

It's not worth going Atom in a 6 cylinder (although realistically it will still work fine).

Cheap last generation G4 ECUs come up on trademe every now and again, there's a Storm on there at the moment for $1000 and I'm sure he would take a near offer. 

Easy option : Find another tuner with a good reputation. 
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magn1t
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sat 04 Nov, 2017 11:07 am

You won't lose the tacho because the signal comes from the PTU not the ECU.

The best computer is the factory one, the late model programmable one, as used in the Galant VR4 V6 TT.

Knock detection doesn't work properly on any link computer.
Useless for road cars on road fuel.
quote from barryboys.
Yes, yes, yes, that might be so, but you're clearly missing the bigger picture.....
4 intercoolers!!!!!!!!
Beat that!!!!
 
BATOOH
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Re: GTO Track Project-Here we go.

Sun 05 Nov, 2017 8:25 am

box wrote:
Cheap last generation G4 ECUs come up on trademe every now and again, there's a Storm on there at the moment for $1000 and I'm sure he would take a near offer. 

Easy option : Find another tuner with a good reputation. 

Thanks Box re speedo knowledge and LINK models, yes I'm going to bite the bullet.!! Had a very quick look at the G4 Storm and I think the only area for concern was peak and hold Injectors which the G4 Storm doesn't support???? I am going to have to do some study on things like this peak and hold, sequential  ignition and group fire etc etc. If I'm buying second hand I've got to get it right.
As for finding a tuner with a good reputation, I think I have found one, whom I have seen racing and latterly helping others with their cars, he is the LINK agent in Timaru of all places. I will talk or meet with him in the coming months. I want this car down 6 seconds on my PB in May next year. Dreaming - No!  I know that I can get this car to do this if I do the things it needs...

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