Gazza wrote:

Nah mine is a Z15A, so I'll pull that pump off and get a blanking plate made.

A 40mm frost plug works well too?

Check those rear CV boots while you're at it, I had to replace mine earlier this year.

box wrote:

Check those rear CV boots while you're at it, I had to replace mine earlier this year.

They actually look really good. One is a definite non-OEM replacement. It does seem kind of silly not to replace them all though.

Gazza wrote:

It does seem kind of silly not to replace them all though.

ohhhhhhh theres that sentence again haha

Well I've completely run out of money now, thanks to having to get a bit of work done on the driver. $3000 that I had better things to spend on than operations

There's that damn driver playing up again. They ought to replace that part.

Yeah mine was faulty from the start, and 30 years haven't been kind to it.

Also, I'll never moan about my mechanic being too expensive again

Wonder what the genuine mitsi version costs

Nah 3SX sell them now. It'll only drive in a straight line though.

OK I've been allowed back in the garage today (not really, but I snuck in while I was off work) and I spent a bit of time just examining the 30M loom to try to figure out the differences and what I'm going to do about them. This follows on from some good advice I got from you guys here http://gtoperformance.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4231 so thanks for that.

What I've found so far, and it's a pain in the arse because the guy cut the loom (exactly what I asked him not to do) right at the junction by the engine. But I've sorted that out with the help off my trusty multimeter and figured out the locations of about half of the pinouts. So far it looks promising at the ECU end, with everything matching up to the 4-pin GTO locations.

Concerns I still have are around the Mivec solenoids (I haven't located those pinouts yet, I ran out of time) and basically the entire removable segment that runs the coils and injectors. The injector plugs are different to the GTO (not a major obviously) and I'm still not sure how the spark will work with the different ignition setup. That might be because I'm not really sure how it works anyway. It would be nice if they made this part removable on the GTO, and even nicer if the guy I bought it off had just unplugged it instead of cutting it

So some progress at least, before I go and get my wisdom teeth out next week

Gazza wrote:

before I go and get my wisdom teeth out next week

Ugh....lucky you

I spent a lazy Saturday afternoon mucking around with the loom again, and getting sidetracked making the Diamante trip computer fit into a DIN socket.

Things of interest on the 30M loom (pin assignments on left are 4-plug GTO assignments):
Pin 90 (AFM) is empty.
Pin 19 (AFM reset) also empty.
Pin 72 IAT = 30M IAT.
Pin 85 Barometric pressure = MAP Sensor.
83 Water temp = Water temp.
84 TPS = TPS (the 30M has 2x TPS sensors, I have no idea where the other one goes ...TCU loom??).
87 Closed throttle = Closed throttle (same TPS as above).
86 Speed sensor is the same.
All six injectors the same, but on a different type of loom to the GTO.
Stepper motor is the same.
10 Ignition Power Transistor A = Coil 3/4 (coil over plug covers 2 opposing cylinders).
23 Ignition Power Transistor B = Coil 5/6.
11 Ignition Power Transistor C = Coil 1/2.
9 Evap purge Solenoid (huh?) = Into the ETACS box.
34 O2 Heater = MIVEC 1.
35 O2 Heater = MIVEC 2. I guess I better find out where those wires go on the GTO because I'll need to reroute them for the Mivec.
55 Induction Control Valve 2 = IFS. This could be a problem, the GTO doesn't have an Ignition Failure Sensor as far as I can tell.

Still a few more to check out. I'm trying to figure out the MFI relay, it doesn't go where I expect and the 30M relay is different. I think I have found it, about a third the size of the GTO one with part no. E8T09571 can anyone confirm?

something like 14703?
http://mitsubishi.epc-data.com/diamante ... 363,16364/

At a guess, the second TPS is for the traction contol.

ravensierra wrote:

At a guess, the second TPS is for the traction contol.

Good point. It looks like I can't use the 30M throttle body anyway due to it sticking out like a dog's balls when mounted upside-down. So I'll use the GTO one, which unfortunately is lightly smaller in diameter.

Scruffy wrote:

something like 14703?
http://mitsubishi.epc-data.com/diamante ... 363,16364/

Yeah I think so. Here is the GTO one on left, with what I suspect is the 30M one on the right. It only has 4 pins instead of 9, and 2 little contact terminals instead of four. Something to do with the TT MFI needing two separate relays maybe?

yeah, the gto has 2 relays in the one unit (the other is fuel pump). you can literally use 2 more conventional relays to replace the unit. the later gens were more obvious in the design: http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_viewI ... duct=26912

Sweet. so it will probably work with the stock GTO relay then.

One half of the relay turns on the ECU.
The other half turns on the fuel pump once you crank the engine.

Some mitsubishis it works slightly different from other cars in that one relay (FP relay) has 2 coils, an operate coil and a hold coil.

Really need the wiring diagram first?


It's that relay as well as the ignition switch that's responsible for the need to hotwire both the fuel pump and the coils. When I say "need"......that's just the amateurs, it's just the contacts need cleaning.


But anyway, it should work with the stock relay.

Barry

Quick question about fuel delivery, and I think I know the answer already. The FPR and injectors control the amount of fuel going in regardless of the size of the fuel pump, right? So if the existing fuel pump is able to keep up, and I go and install a bigger pump it won't actually use any more fuel without changing the delivery system at the front of the car?

What I'm getting at is I don't want to put a TT fuel pump in and be running unnecessarily rich. But I also don't want to run Mivec with the NA pump and not be delivering enough fuel. I have no way of measuring knock count.

The fuel pressure regulator as a rule will bypass enough fuel to keep rail pressure at the right pressure (47.5psi for N/A GTO, not sure about MIVEC?). The only issue with a higher flowing fuel pump will be if the pump forces enough flow through the system at low load conditions (idle, cruise) that the orifice in the regulator becomes a restriction to flow and the rail pressure is artificially raised, causing the injectors to flow more for a given pulsewidth.

The ECU will compensate for a slight regulator overrun by changing the fuel trims, BUT this will be an issue at high load when the fuel trims are applied and the AFR is leaner than intended.

I don't see the TT pump and N/A regulator being an issue for overrun as I have run this setup without issues.

The TTs use a 2 speed pump, I think the N/A is only single speed?

So a stock TT pump might be rated at 180 L/hr at full voltage but running through the resistor at about 9v will only flow half that.
The N/A pump might be 100 to 120L/Hr?
The biggest problem is at idle where the engine uses pretty much zero fuel and the pressure is at it's lowest at 43 - 10PSI for a TT or 47.5 - 10PSI for an N/A.
The number you're looking for will be 37.5PSI + or - a couple either way.


All you need to work out is how much fuel you need for whatever HP you want?
So, as a guide 6 x 360cc TT injectors are usually good for 400ish HP at the flkywheel (2.16 L/min, 129 L/hr).
The 30M should make 270 ish horses at the flywheel.

So a stock N/A pump should work OK, so long as you flow test to confirm.
You do that by pulling off the return line and collecting fuel at idle.

Barry

They're only 275 cc 30M injectors, up from 210 cc NA GTO.

magn1t wrote:

All you need to work out is how much fuel you need for whatever HP you want?
So 6 x 360cc injectors are usually good for 400ish HP (2.16 L/min, 129 L/hr)

The thing is I have no idea how you came up with that. I don't doubt that you know your stuff, but without reasoning it has to be treated as hearsay (you taught me that Steve )

So let's say 6 x 360cc = 400hp as gospel (let's just call it the 19th law of Barrydynamics)
Then 6 x 275 cc = P
Ignore the common sixes, P = (400 / 360) x 275; P = 305.6 hp. Sounds reasonable I guess.

OK so I've just learned that the cc rating is actually "cc per minute". That's the level of knowledge we're dealing with here

Which means I need 275 x 6 x 60 = 99000 = 99 L/hr fuel pump. Does anyone actually know what the stock NA pump puts out, without me having to get into flow testing?

What CR did that engine wind up, 10:1?

Should be 10:1, it's the stock 30M gasket and 30M pistons.

I have seen 90lph for the N/A pump, not sure what pressure or voltage though. Perhaps it will flow the ~100 required at 47.5psi with a hotwire? You will still want to flow test it though unless you have some afr monitoring planned for the car. Flow testing should be done by applying 12v to the fuel pump test connector rather than measuring at idle, since the engine will put ~10psi of vacuum on the regulator at idle and the pump would flow more than under full load conditions.

Note also that all 3L Diamantes including MIVEC use the same part number for the fuel pump assy.